Re: Waters of Mars

[eponymous_rose]

(First, though, just wanted to point out that who_daily and torchwood_three (and trek_news, for that matter) are looking for more editors! I've been doing who_daily for... must be going on two years, and it's been nearly a year since I created trek_news, so if you have any questions or are on the fence about applying, I might be able to help!)


That was... pretty much awesome, I thought.

90% of it was spent with me going "Wait, wait, wait, this show is a family show, right? So all these shots of the hero walking away as people die horribly and scream and turn into horrific (yet totally unexplained - that was a bit odd) monsters, and then the body count keeps rising and an immensely sympathetic character kills herself, that's not going to give anyone nightmares, right?" I definitely understand the folks who are disconcerted at this image of the Doctor, and maybe the fact that I started out with New Who makes it a bit easier on me to go with the dark!Doctor notion.

I really enjoyed the characters this time around, but I really felt like the first half hour or so dragged quite a bit, because it was all death and destruction and a lot of walking. I was honestly expecting an angsty ending, where they somehow drew out the death scenes for the remaining half hour and had Ten sigh and vworp off into the sunset or something. Which would have been painfully annoying and would have made for an exceptionally dull special, so it's a good thing I don't write for Who.

Anyway, I'm sure these will be available in their entirety somewhere else (if they aren't already), but in the meantime, have some of the obits for fic-related purposes, because fic would be awesome:









It was late when I watched last night, so I can't remember if the other two got their obits. If so, let me know and I'll upload them!

Anyway, I really enjoyed the transition to freaking-scary-Ten (screw handlebars - apparently he can ride his bike without a bike, he's that extreme), which is to say that it genuinely scared me. We've gone so long with Ten being... untouchable, always morally correct - and I was on Harriet's side during The Christmas Invasion, so that's always felt a bit off - that it was extremely shocking to see him taken down like this. Which is good! It made for some really interesting watching. And having our survivors be so completely scared of the Doctor (well, Adelaide was more furious) was really, really spooky.

Have I mentioned yet how much I loved Adelaide? Because I did, so much.

This is going to be really interesting - I didn't expect them to go this far with it, but I'm one of the people who thinks it makes sense, given what we've seen of Ten (and, to a much lesser extent, Nine). This should make for an entertaining Christmas special.

Also, and this is sort of a plea for help, this picture in the trailer:



I had such a jolt of recognition when I saw it - I had the strongest impression that there was some image in Classic Who that framed the Valeyard this way. To the point where I obsessively clicked through all the Trial of a Time Lord pictures on THT looking for it, without success. Did I totally make that up? I'm not usually a very visual person at all, so it was strange when my brain twigged some level of recognition on that one, anyway. Maybe I was just thinking of this:


and my brain did the zooming? Because clearly field = quarry. Or something.

Anyway, those were my incoherent thoughts. Mostly I was really excited to see Who of any kind again. That was a long, long wait!

Comments

[brewsternorth.livejournal.com]

I think your brain was doing the zooming, yes. And I think it wasn't a field so much as a beach. YMMV, though, it's been a while since I subjected myself to Trial.

But rather funny to see a scene intentionally in a quarry in Wales (again).

[eponymous-rose.livejournal.com]

Right! It was a beach, wasn't it? (Now that I think about it, I'm not sure I actually ever finished Trial. I may be remembering this clip from a fanvid, actually.)

*uses appropriate icon*

[ghost2.livejournal.com]

I'm guessing there haven't been many recent newsletter applicants. I think the perceived amount of work might be an issue?

Haven't watched Waters of Mars. I've just been reading reaction posts, but I'll probably try to check it out later today. It sounds better than I was expecting.

[brewsternorth.livejournal.com]

I think the perceived amount of work might be an issue?

It certainly looked rather daunting to me. Plus, I don't have Semagic or Qumana or these other LJ clients, so I'd be relying on my Copious HTML Skills (hem hem) unless anyone had a sort of hard-coded text template.

[usuallyhats]

I do all my newsletter coding by hand. There're templates for soniclipstick and trek_news, and for who_daily there's a magic spreadsheet - you just plug in the links and the text, click the "generate code" button and it does it all for you! doyle_sb4 made it and it is a thing of beauty.

[eponymous-rose.livejournal.com]

I've always been ornery and old-fashioned and just opened up a blank text document for every newsletter and coded from scratch, and it rarely takes me more than an hour - but that's because my typing clocks in at over 100 wpm, and it's just faster to do it that way rather than figure out any of the admittedly nifty tools people have come up with to help out. And I really do enjoy it! Apart from always keeping on top of fandom, it's kind of... hypnotic. Strangely relaxing.

[eponymous-rose.livejournal.com]

I went in with pretty low expectations (of the "I will enjoy this because it's Who, but possibly everyone will think I'm crazy for liking it" variety), and I was pretty plesantly surprised. Still really, really looking forward to the fresh start with series five!

[stoplookingup.livejournal.com]

I had a really similar response. I agree that those of us who started out with New Who might be more willing to see this story get told. I wonder if it will be explicitly Valeyard or just implied.

[brewsternorth.livejournal.com]

I wonder if it will be explicitly Valeyard or just implied.

Or a Valeyard-alike?

[eponymous-rose.livejournal.com]

I think I keep spoiling myself by watching all these long-cancelled TV shows on DVD - I'm so used to hitting a what-happens-next moment and just popping in the next episode. Fannish suspense! I've missed it.

I wonder if it will be explicitly Valeyard or just implied.

I've been thinking a lot about this - either way, it could be handled really, really effectively, or... not. It'll be interesting to see which way it goes.

[wondygal.livejournal.com]

(screw handlebars - apparently he can ride his bike without a bike, he's that extreme)

Heeee. I kept thinking about all the discussions I've read about the Doctor and his role in relation to "Handlebars" and "Marble House". It sort of made me love fandom like a mad mad thing.

Man, I am now totally going to read all the talk about bikes as a reference to "Handlebars".

[eponymous-rose.livejournal.com]

Man, I am now totally going to read all the talk about bikes as a reference to "Handlebars".

It hit me at some point during the episode, and I couldn't stop seeing it as a fannish shout-out. ;) But that's the mark of a really excellent fanvid, isn't it? It's getting people talking.

...yeah, I'm gonna be watching it again tonight, I'm sure.

[mysticalchild_isis]

Yeah, we're kind of past family-friendly TV, here. If I had watched this as a child, I would be traumatized for weeks. Possibly months.

I really liked Adelaide, too- I liked how they really demonstrated that she was a heroic type, rather than just telling us. Well-acted, well-played, well-written. (And I loved the bits of her as a child, too.)

And yeah- creepy!Doctor is seriously creepy. I never, ever expected to say that about Tennant.

[eponymous-rose.livejournal.com]

If I had watched this as a child, I would be traumatized for weeks. Possibly months.

I was thinking that, definitely. The specials in particular I picture as a more family-oriented kind of thing, so it was doubly jarring. And it looks like the Christmas special won't exactly be a barrel of laughs, either. "Merry Christmas, kids! Your hero's dead!"

I liked how they really demonstrated that she was a heroic type, rather than just telling us.

Hey, right! That's a great way of putting it. I think the show often goes the route of "so-and-so is important in history, look at their credentials, so they are awesome QED", but Adelaide really stood out based on what we actually saw of her, which was refreshing.

I never, ever expected to say that about Tennant.

I kind of want to go back and watch some random, cheerful episode from series two, just to make my brain explode.

[prof-pangaea.livejournal.com]

there were cheerful episodes in s2?

[eponymous-rose.livejournal.com]

Moments. Cheerful moments. Possibly.

...I can't remember what happened in s2, actually. It's been way too long since I watched any Who - fannish amnesia is kicking in.

[prof-pangaea.livejournal.com]

i know there is this weird fannish idea that s2 was all puppies and balloons but... that was the series that started the lonely god, that had ten depose harriet jones within hours of his regeneration, that had him consider taking over the universe with the skasis paradigm, the season where we find out he feels incrdibly alone even when he's surrounded by his friends, that has a whole episode about how he is a harbinger of death and destruction, and where we find out that he used to be a father but his children are all dead. it even has space!satan telling him off for comitting genocide against his own people. i think it's pretty in line with the rest of ten's tenure, actually.

[greek-jester.livejournal.com]

The Doctor Victorious? Scariest thing in the space/time continuum. Glad the Captain managed to shock him out of it (although whether it's far enough out is still under debate).

I do have one question - if their deaths on Mars were one of the fixed points in time that the Doctor was always on about to his Companions (& Rose trampled all over when she saved her dad), would there have been Reapers if the Captain hadn't fixed things herself by blowing her brains out? Would that have made things better or worse for the Doctor, since he wouldn't have seen what he was becoming?

[eponymous-rose.livejournal.com]

Ooh, good questions! I always wonder about the Reapers for the purposes of fic-writing (and then drive myself totally bonkers by trying to figure out exactly, precisely how important something has to be for them to get involved). Oh, time-travel fandoms.

would there have been Reapers if the Captain hadn't fixed things herself by blowing her brains out?

You could also look at it the other way - her death is a fixed point in time, so it would happen regardless of what the Doctor does. But that's kinda bleak, isn't it?

Would that have made things better or worse for the Doctor, since he wouldn't have seen what he was becoming?

I'd really like to see a fic about that. Definitely.

[dbskyler.livejournal.com]

maybe the fact that I started out with New Who makes it a bit easier on me to go with the dark!Doctor notion

Well, my first Doctor was Tom Baker way back in the '70s, and I personally love the dark!Doctor notion. It scares the hell out of me, but it's a place that I am very excited to get led to, and I hope they really do explore the consequences of the Doctor proclaiming that the laws of time are his now to do with as he will. I mean, wow. We've never seen that before, but they've laid the groundwork for it and made it completely believable. Scary as hell, too, in the best possible "behind the sofa" way yet. If we can't trust the Doctor, then we're really in trouble!

Thanks for the screenshots of the obits. I got an unintentional laugh at Roman Groom's having gone to the "University of Berkley, California." I'd sympathetically chalk it up to British writers who don't have time to look things up if Steffi Ehrlich's obit didn't say she went to the "University of California at Berkeley," which of course is correct.

[prof-pangaea.livejournal.com]

what about the first sentence of captain brooke's bio, which says, "Brooke, born in Finchley, North London, on 12 May 1999 lost her parents at the age of 10 when they were pronounced missing and presumed dead after the Dalek invasion of 2008." [emphasis mine]

only doctor who could manufacture a continuity problem that easily!

[dbskyler.livejournal.com]

only doctor who could manufacture a continuity problem that easily!

Oh, well spotted! And you're right, that's got to be some kind of a record -- continuity problem in one sentence flat!

But never fear, DW fanfic writers have yet to come across a continuity plothole they cannot fix! *waits for Adelaide-was-on-the-Valiant-during-the-Year-That-Never-Was-fic, which explains how she was 10 in 2008 when she was born in 1999* ; )

[eponymous-rose.livejournal.com]

It scares the hell out of me, but it's a place that I am very excited to get led to

This is such a perfect way of putting it! And you're right - I was generalizing based on a few reactions I'd read from longer-term fans versus newer fans. The reactions seem to be all over the board, now! Talk about jump-starting a fandom.

And oh, man, I love the errors in these screencaptures. I'm hoping these things will appear in their entirety on some BBC site at some point, and I'm hoping they proofread them a bit more carefully first. ;)

*waits for Adelaide-was-on-the-Valiant-during-the-Year-That-Never-Was-fic, which explains how she was 10 in 2008 when she was born in 1999*

...I love Doctor Who fandom so much. ♥

[prof-pangaea.livejournal.com]

[elliptic-eye.livejournal.com]

EPIC

[eponymous-rose.livejournal.com]

ILU FOREVER.

[prof-pangaea.livejournal.com]

muahahaha my devious plan to get you to marry me so i can get canadian citizenship is obviously working!

[prof-pangaea.livejournal.com]

BTW i had never actually watched the handlebars vid, though i knew it's fannish reputation, because that song used to play at the bakery i worked at last year like 20 times a day and i hated it. except apparently i never actually listened to it past the first verse so when i finally watched the vid today i was COMPLETEY ASTOUNDED BY WHERE IT WENT. it was amaaaaaaaazing! and really quite scary and made me kind of sad.

[fleurette.livejournal.com]

I really LOVED this episode!!! I dunno...I had no problem with the Doctor's going off and trying to mess with TIME...you know, although it manifests in different ways, and is often hidden depending on the situation, incarnation, etc., his arrogance is and I think has always been part of his character, and really, makes a lot of sense to me, that his arrogance, anger and really any number of negative characteristics, should come out in this circumstance -- a lesser man would've lost it ages ago, but I keep hearing complaints about it from various fans...ah well, as far as Harriet Jones in TCI, I was on the Doctor's side all they way, only beginning to see why she might have done what she did later...when she sacrificed herself to the Daleks...but that's neither here nor there...this was a wonderful, scary episode -- not even the Doctor can mess with time, because time can kick some major time lord ass...LOL!!! Can you tell I'm excited?! XD

[eponymous-rose.livejournal.com]

his arrogance is and I think has always been part of his character

Great point! I think they've really been building up to this in a lot of ways, and here I'm still all surprised that they actually, well, went for it. Very cool.

Can you tell I'm excited?! XD

Is it Christmas yet? How about now? :D

[elliptic-eye.livejournal.com]

We've gone so long with Ten being... untouchable, always morally correct - and I was on Harriet's side during The Christmas Invasion, so that's always felt a bit off - that it was extremely shocking to see him taken down like this. Which is good!

This. It worked for me because he forfeited pretty much all dignity in the process of going off the deep end, and because for once the people around him didn't magically fall under his spell and validate his Rightness. He was way too far gone to be charismatic, and people reacted like people: all differently.

I think what you're remembering from Trial is the Matrix!beach scene, which is a little similar: The Valeyard stands ominously on a dune, and then stands ominously on a closer dune, and then… Yes, well. Timothy Dalton would make a pretty good approximation of Jayston visually, and I cannot help hoping even a) though I know it's not going to happen, and b) it's probably better that it doesn't.

[eponymous-rose.livejournal.com]

because for once the people around him didn't magically fall under his spell and validate his Rightness.

Yes! Ten's so often hanging out on that very thin line between charismatic and terrifyingly manic at the best of times, and it was starting to feel... off that everyone would, as you said, magically fall under his spell. I think it might be a little brain-breaky going back to earlier episodes, now.

a) though I know it's not going to happen, and b) it's probably better that it doesn't.

Yeah, this is about where I am. I think I'd rather have a subtle little wink-wink-nudge-nudge hint of Valeyardness than having them actually go that route. But what do I know? Maybe they could pull it off, after all.

[bookblather.livejournal.com]

Ahem.

DONNA DONNA DONNA DONNA DONNA DONNA DONNA DONNA DONNA DONNA DONNA.

Not that I'm excited about Donna or anything.

Okay, so, OMG IT WAS SO COOL. For all the reasons you said, for Lindsey Duncan finally delivering the bitchslap of calling Ten out, for DONNA IN THE PREVIEW and just. Wow. So cool. SO COOL. *flails some more incoherently*

But yes. This episode really made it clear that it's time for Eleven.

[eponymous-rose.livejournal.com]

DONNA DONNA DONNA DONNA

Ahem.

This episode really made it clear that it's time for Eleven.

I was being very good and trying not to spoil myself (on the day the episode aired, anyway), and I still glanced at a review that said they loved the episode but thought it was definitely time for Eleven, and I went "wait, what?" Nowww I get it. It's really, really feeling like the story's coming to an end. And I can't wait for this ending! It'll be epic.

[tree_and_leaf]

maybe the fact that I started out with New Who makes it a bit easier on me to go with the dark!Doctor notion.

I'm not sure - I mean, like everyone else, my reaction was "Oh shit he's gone all Valeyard", so it's not as if the Doctor hasn't always had a fairly visible shadow.

Also... I agree - how the hell did they get away with that on children's telly (I know they got away with Inferno, but the Doctor was morally impeachable there and none of it was his fault.

[eponymous-rose.livejournal.com]

so it's not as if the Doctor hasn't always had a fairly visible shadow.

Yes, you're right! I was completely generalizing, there, based on a couple reviews I read before posting. (Although I guess you could argue that the shadow in Classic Who - and New Who to date, really - has been just that: something external, physically separate from the Doctor himself, something he can at least try to fight against.)

how the hell did they get away with that on children's telly

I may have to rewatch the first half of this again, because I think I missed a lot - I kept going "Well, there's no way they're going to kill- Whoa, never mind. Well, at least there's- Oh, them too? Anyway, they can't possibly- Did they really? Really?"

[tardis-stowaway.livejournal.com]

This is going to be really interesting - I didn't expect them to go this far with it, but I'm one of the people who thinks it makes sense, given what we've seen of Ten (and, to a much lesser extent, Nine).

Yes! Ten has always had a tendency toward hubris, taking the decisions out of other people's hands, making promises to save people that he can't possibly keep, and other disturbing traits. There have been times when he has seriously scared and bothered me (taking Donna's memories as she begged him not to, the end of Family of Blood, bringing down Harriet Jones' administration). However, I hadn't expected that the show would ever do more than invite a little bit of questioning about whether the Doctor is always right. WoM didn't question; it made it abundantly clear that the Doctor had hopped on the Crazy Ego Train.

This should make for an entertaining Christmas special.

Also the least Christmas-y Christmas special EVAR.